Ep. 83 - Memories Over Miles: There's No Prize For First

Backpacking used to be about dirt under your nails, bad coffee at sunrise, and sitting on a rock long enough to feel small again. Now it feels like it’s all spreadsheets, split times, and humblebrags about 30-mile days.
Somewhere along the way, miles started mattering more than memories.
So we’re pushing back.
This is a conversation about slowing down on purpose. About ignoring the stopwatch. About staying at the overlook even if it wrecks your itinerary. About remembering that nobody lays in their tent at night thinking, “I wish I’d walked faster.”

If the only thing you bring home is a number… you might’ve missed the whole point.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Hello and welcome to Busted Knees and Pretty Trees, a podcast for wanderers, saunterers, ramblers, strollers, meanderers, Nordic walkers, maybe, maybe not so much for the runners. Either way, everyone is welcome here, and we'd like to thank you for coming. But don't get me wrong, runners, we support our more agile trailgoers. Our dying bodies just no longer support that level of athleticism. Individually, we all have a pace or groove we prefer on the trail. And that's what we're gonna talk about today. Believe it or not, this is a very complex topic, and lucky for the listeners, we're gonna lay it out plain and simple, with probably some unforeseen alternative viewpoints, as usual. Next week, we're gonna have a chat about the spring migration and spending a week crisscrossing the crossroads of America. We have plenty of spring migration to talk about once our on-location crew get over their birding festival hangovers and put their pieces back together. Or get their ducks in a row, if you will. I will say all these birds around had me washing the house windows for a better view. That takes a powerful force. Oh, I thought you meant because they're like getting poop on them. Well, they're getting poop all over my truck. That thing is garaged 24-7 right now. Anyway, let's get going. I am Travis White. That is Bradley Greer, and that's Patrick Richardson. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Yeah, that was a great intro. I'm so happy you mentioned next week because on my drive home today, I was like, I gotta make sure that we start promoting another next episode. And then here come Travy J just walking on into the studio, and you go ahead and rip out what we have coming up next weekend, and that makes me old heart pit or patter.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Well, I mentioned it because I we I kind of planned for possibly two episodes because we weren't quite sure which direction we wanted to go because you guys had just got back uh before we had Jabin on. Yeah. And then Jabin was such an awesome guest, and so everybody's just stoked on birding right now. Yeah. And you and Brad and Chad and everybody's been out and about. I've been exploring my backyard a little more. Uh but no, it's been pretty exciting to uh and you guys have done so much shit, and uh, I'm excited for next week's episode too.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Yeah, that really puts it into like that's kind of the downswing of the migration. So instead of doing, I mean, there's no telling what Brad or I or you or anybody out there looking at the birds is gonna find in the next week. It's just like a ooh, ooh, whoo, who knows?

SPEAKER_02 3:03

I turned on the Merlin yesterday or the day before, and it was I was getting I had three different Yeah, you had a Blackberry and warbler. And that for me is just like, holy, I need to find that thing. I never did.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Yeah, that's if you want to see like what a cool bird looks like, look up the black berry and warbler. I didn't know they existed Bernian.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

What is uh uh forget it, we won't talk about that. Dude, I was out today on my lunch break right before it stormed, and I got an eastern wood pee-wee on my uh lifelist. So that smells good. 151 right now.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Dude, I got that the we have hiking trails where we work, and yeah, that's where I was. I saw I was back there a lot the other day and saw a green throated or black throated green warbler. Um indigo bunting. There's all kinds, there's all kinds of cool stuff.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

Don't mention how many birds you found over this past week. Oh Brad. Oh, I wouldn't dare. I wouldn't dare post Costa Rica.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

I would not dare.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

I know it's been it's been extravagant for myself, so I will say I when we spoke with Jabin, I was fifth, he was 297, I was 283, so that'll be the big tells whether I surpassed Jabin or not.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Let's go. Dude, that's intense. Hey, golly, that scared the ever-loving hell out of me. I don't know if I was ready for the Walt to roar, but I guess it's been a minute since he's had a chance to roar. Yeah, yeah, it really is.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Yeah, ready to stretch his legs. He's been out enjoying the migration, getting to eat all these delicate little birds. Oh, don't say that. Walt Walt's a vegan. Oh no. Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

I did.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

Walt, Brad, somebody lay it on us. And almost a little bit of a throwback. I have two quick hitter stories tonight, but they're both out of Great Smoky Mountain National Park. Two? Yeah. Two stories. Just like the good old days.

SPEAKER_02 5:01

I feel like when we talk about the smokies, like we're going back to you know, way long ago when we started the smoke. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

Well, and it's nostalgic. It's that one, that's my roots for backpacking back in the smokies. Yeah. So two stories. The first one, it's something that's been happening across the country is aggressive bear activity. Uh we I'm there to mention there's been a lot of stories going on. Yeah, like uh somebody just died in glacier. There was somebody attacked in Yellowstone.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

Two people and Yellowstone.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Yeah. Yeah. And this aggressive bear activity has been going on in the Smoky Mountain National Park. Specifically, the Ramsey Cascades Trail remains closed after being like it was first shut down on May 8th. And uh this news story was last updated May 14th. So four days. Yeah. We're recording four days after May 14th. And this is releasing May 20th.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

So maybe a little outdated, but uh the cat they've they're actually closing trails, and this is part of the the Ramsey Cascade Trails, I believe, is part of the AT. Oh. And I know like some of the the Molly's Ridge shelter and towns in along the AT is closed at the time of this article. Because of the bear? Yeah. There's there were six aggressive bear encounters. Six?

SPEAKER_02 6:36

Yeah. Is it because of their are they mothers?

SPEAKER_01 6:39

Uh it it didn't say that they were. I mean, it is spring, so I wouldn't be surprised if if it is a mother protecting the cubs. But what's funny is the article keeps saying um it's incidents where bears approached hikers, took backpacks, and chased visitors. So it's almost like they're bullies, like, hey kid, give me that backpack. Give me your lunch money.

SPEAKER_02 7:02

That feels like an adaptation.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

Yeah. Like, okay. They know something sweet is inside that bear.

SPEAKER_02 7:07

These knuckleheads have dropped their packs trying to get away from me. Yeah. There's good food in there.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

Pretty, pretty crazy, because that's what everybody says, like, oh, black bears will run away.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

Out of curiosity, bear canisters on the Appalachian Trail or in the Smokies are not required. They just have to hang, hang bear bags. So easier for the bears to get to if they get into your pack.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Well, but a lot of yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

Okay. And a lot of the um what is cool about the smokies, a lot of the campsites have kind of a cable and pulley system to hang your bear bag.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

Like they make it super easy. Or they'll have like a metal container you can put them in. Yeah. Bear box.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

So yeah, the Rangers said that they they responded to three separate incidents on Ramsey Cascade Trails, and it's the same thing, like the bear approach displayed aggressive behavior, and briefly chased the group and got their backpacks. So this is as far as that like this article, it's been ongoing, and um I mean they estimate there's 1900 bears in Smoky Mount National Park. It's a lot of bears.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

Yeah, but mostly those bears are scavenger bears. So they're not known to be aggressive necessarily to a passer buyer. They're mostly like sp spooked. Yeah, right. I mean, uh all the packs come with that built-in whistles, give that a blow. Man, that's gonna scare the shit out of the way.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

Well, for one, I think like the populations are probably getting bigger. So you're gonna have more human interaction. And what? Since the COVID times, there's been a lot more people on trail, a lot more people equals, a lot more dumb people.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

Maybe inexperienced, the newer people aren't experienced.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

Not as experienced, don't know what to do when they interact with a bear. So they because yeah, you run.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Like I'm pretty sure that's like 101 not to do. You make yourself big, make loud, loud.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Luckily, we got Patty with us for a yeah, you guys just crouch down and let's go rarrr!

SPEAKER_02 9:12

I am a bear, apparently. So let's go, dude. Whoa. But you have to be able to distinguish bears too. Well, there's no brown bears in in the smokies. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

But also, but distinguish like there's cubs. This is a a mother. Yeah, have they probably uh did the rangers mention anything about that? No, they didn't. They just said they're just so far they've just said aggressive bear activity. They have they haven't said like one bear, two bear, they may not know. So you would think that they didn't say aggressive stupidity.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

You would think that if they if there were cubs, that would be like in that like in that headline purposefully.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Yeah, it didn't. I read a couple different articles and they didn't say it. Wow, that's wild. Have you noticed that this is a side tangent? Nailed it. A lot of local news channel websites, like you know, we have uh in Fort Wayne, we have Wayne TV and like our Fox affiliate. 21 Live. Their websites are all behind either pay barriers or you have to disable um ad blockers to get to their websites. Local websites? Yeah, it's a real pain in the ass. Like they're almost hard to get to now.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

Oh, they're probably run by the like the bigger affiliates.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

Oh, yeah, they're all owned by the same like couple rich families. Yeah. But you can't, it sucks because like my work computer, I can't turn that off. So when I'm to read a story? So when I'm on my lunch break, not working, not needing to be working, I can't look at these websites and read these stories.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Dude, I that sucks. But I this is because I guess I would have expected I did not know you were gonna take it all the way to the smokies. Yeah. I guess when you said that it was sweeping the country, I should have expected you'd be further away from but like you see where there's brown, not brown bears, grizzly bears in Yellowstone, in Glacier, which is a hundred miles or less north of Yellowstone, is where Glacier is. So you could see like those bears are meat, they're hunting. Like that's what they diz. But black bears being aggressive in this kind of capacity, like lots of them? Yeah, like over five of them.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

Well, it doesn't sound like they're like violently aggressive. Are they just saying like nobody's died, but their aggression is elevated, not necessarily Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

I don't yeah, yeah. They're not being mauled and then eaten by a black bear.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

You know what's interesting too is I think right now is when the main part of the through hikers are going through. Like they I think they're just north. Like they've smokies throughout Kentucky, Tennessee, North Carolina. Okay. So is there a big influx of hikers? Yeah, like I think the bubble might be getting to like Virginia right now. So that could have had something to do with it too. Curious though. Alright, so next story, the next quick hitter, is that there's been a donation to expand that's going to expand Grey Smoky National Park by over 600 acres. Let's go. So we it's well established on this podcast that this is the country's most visited park. Yep, yes it is. And it's five hundred and seventy-seven thousand acres, and now they're getting six hundred acres larger. Good fores.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

What's the math on that?

SPEAKER_01 12:42

It does it like five hundred and seventy-seven thousand six hundred now. It does, it is weird because when you think about it, you're like, man, that's six hundred acres on top of five hundred and seventy thousand. Yeah. But you're selling six hundred acres is a shitload of land.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

That's a big chunk of land.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

I can't comprehend either.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Yeah, like in my head. Yeah, so uh this is coming from uh like uh Foothills Land Conservancy is purchasing the land and it's through the John Oliver. I guess he was like a historical figure in the Smoky Mountains, and this was one of his like properties, and there was a he has a cabin that's it's either in Grey Smoky Mash or in the national park already, or now it's going to be like this little cabin that he lived in. And it's 600 acres of forest, ridgeline, and just wildlife habitat, and it's on the northwest side of the Smoky Mountains.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

Who are they acquiring it from?

SPEAKER_01 13:43

Uh I think it's like the Oliver, like um, like I don't know if it's the Family Trust or but it's something to do with this John Oliver, not the HBO comedian from last week tonight.

SPEAKER_03 13:55

Yeah, I was confused. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

The Foothill Lands Conservancy, I think, has had like a part in managing this property over the years, but I don't I'm not sure that they've like fully owned it. Because I think they're the ones donating it to the national park.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

So I looked around. I mean, I'm reading this article on AOL.com. So like a lot of the other websites, I this website had the most info about it. Like it would show up on a lot of websites, but there'd only be like two paragraphs. Um John Oliver himself is was a regular. It said he was a regular to uh Smoky Mountain National Park visitors, but I've never heard of him. Have you guys heard of him?

SPEAKER_00 14:38

No, but I've only been to the Smoky Mountains uh never.

SPEAKER_02 14:41

Oh but that's a name that you would expect to see on the trail back then.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Yes, I mean he was like he's a veteran of the war of 1812, so he's an old school. Jesus. Old school dude. And his cabin is like there's a cabin that's there now, but it's like right on top of where his old cabin was and wasn't his original cabin from the 1800s.

SPEAKER_02 15:05

Back then was the I can't imagine it being the trail being for recreation.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

No, I mean this was just the area, like the national park itself was established in 1934.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

So he would this was just his homestead. Like this is the the land that the government gave him to homestead on.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

That makes me wonder like how long had that trail been established, or at least portions of it before it was it was even thought of that we had the luxury of just walking out into the wilderness, you know, in our own.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

I mean, the the AT was specifically established to do the AT. It wasn't there for any purposeful, yeah, purposeful. I mean, there were sections of it where Civil War armies hiked through, but it wasn't like an established we're we plan on eventually. We're gonna do a a story, like cover an episode on the on the AT itself, right?

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Yeah, we're talking right now with the Appalachian Trail Conservancy who uh maintains and preserves uh the Appalachian Trail. And then we're in the talks right now with a little lady named Rebecca Cuff, who is a uh section hiker. Um should have a lot of insight, seems like lots of experience.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

Anytime I have questions, we have a a guest lined up to answer.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

You just wait a couple weeks, buddy boy, and we got you. Wow, hey, there he is. It's good to hear. 600 acres. I'm psyched about the bears. 600,000 acres?

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Yeah, or sorry, no, 600 acres.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

Oh my god, I was like, wait a second. Yeah, 600. That that's awesome, but then the bear story is also like perplexing to me. Yeah, more perplexed by that story.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

There's gotta be so so many different factors that go into that.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

Speaking of the smokies and you never being there, uh Alyssa, a former guest on the podcast, reminded me that she didn't win the Firefly lottery this year, or she was gonna put in for it and forgot, I didn't, but she or she didn't win. I was like, man, I forgot, I didn't even think about putting in for it.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

That's what all the fireflies gather in one area. Yeah, they do it and they all light like at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

There's a smoky mountain part and a congaree national park.

SPEAKER_02 17:25

I think that we put that on the on the podcast to-do list, I think, a long time ago.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

We gotta set a reminder on our calendar with our phone. I'll look it up later too.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

When you do the lottery, can you put in like podcast hosts?

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Yeah, get a little uh we need to contact their PR people. Can we do that? We can a lot of people get away with a lot of shit. If you're an agent out there, get a hold of us. We need representation.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Yeah, we'll reach out, but we got some fun shit to get to tonight. That's actually the meat and potatoes of this. And I was curious because I went back and listened to our first few episodes.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

Again?

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Yeah, and episode two, we do a little bit of discussing about this because I can't remember the overall premise of that episode, but we were talking about kind of just like how to choose a trip, like what you're what you're looking for. We gave our insights into how we choose trips. So I kind of wanted to expand a little bit further on that because now we're a year older. We got even more busted knees and stuff like that. Yeah. So I just kind of wanted to get a little understanding of where backpacking is currently and where we are. Okay. I think it sounds good. All right, let's get rolling, dude. Let's do it. All right, I got a question for you guys, okay? Something I've been thinking about long and hard. I can't tell if it's my old age, you know, my ripe 41-year-old body, or or if I'm just becoming a curmudgeon or what it is. But all the above. Yeah, or all the above, that's for sure. But when I go online and I'm looking backpacking, I'm looking up gear, I'm looking up the next trail to do, I see a hell of a lot of shit about people, both men, women, and everything in between that, that like to just fly down the trail. Uh all the reviews are ah, I got done with this trail in like a day and a half, and it's 50 some odd miles. And I gotta tell you, I'm getting a little bit worn out on all of it. So I guess just softball question to you, gentlemen. I'm curious what's a perfect rather successful backpacking trip to you guys. What's a successful one? Successful backpacking trip to you guys and your opinions.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

I don't know. I've I don't really, I'm not really buying a book. I don't follow the itinerary if uh I don't care about the mileage. He just follows my itinerary. Well, that's the thing, is it's about it's if Brad's got that all under control, I don't have to worry about it.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

Yeah, it's kind of like uh he's learned uh trust me that I he likes my style. And if he leads me astray, I get and I don't and I don't want the rap.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

No, you know, funny funny enough, 10 miles ago you said two more miles. We alluded to episode one and two and three, and in those episodes we discussed how wonderful of a gent you are, because not only do you not have anything to say about the planning of the trip, or do you want to say anything ever about the planning of the trip, but also when it does go a bit sideways or something along those lines, you're there to kind of pick it up and like say, hey, okay, hey, hey, oh well, hey, hey, it's never gone sideways. So, so you we we talked about that long ago, but what is a successful trip to you? I I just want to start our episode here.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

My simple answer is uh all of them. I've never had an unsuccessful trip because they all have their unique experiences. Whether or not we I completed what I planned on or the weather didn't go right, yeah, it's still uh you know, part of a single experience that I mean nothing's ever happened so tragic to where it was just horrible.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

So is a successful trip completing the miles? Is a successful trip seeing something to be seen? Is it a successful trip not kicking the shit out of your backpacking compadreating?

SPEAKER_01 21:40

Making a new dip at a glacial pond.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

Like that's what I'm getting into.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

I think it's just um uh the making the most of the adventure. All right, all right.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

B Rad, what is a successful trip to you? I think coming out of a place and thinking that. You have an understanding of that environment. Like what that eco the different ecosystems that you walk through. Yes. Like what it's about, what's there, what's around, like what uh what kind of flora and fauna are around. Um what what the weather conditions are like, how fast it can change.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

Would you guys uh would you guys be willing to admit, which I got a feeling you are, that a successful trip should be or could be measured off memories instead of miles? Oh yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

But it's also I mean depends what your goal is. If you're a if you're a runner and you're trying to freaking, you know Well, I'm specifically talking about 30 miles today.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

Trail running and that kind of stuff, that's a different sport. You know, I'm specifically talking about the hiking and the backpacking atmosphere. I almost think through hiking is a different sport too than what we do. I would well, we've we've alluded to that in the past as well, and I definitely agree. Like, I don't think that I would I would uh you know a cook doesn't call themselves a chef. And I think as a backpacker, I'm not gonna dare call myself a through hiker in any regard. You know, I'm dabbling in the ultralight side of through hiking, those kind of things. Right. But yeah, I all that aside, like I guess what I'm what I'm trying to kind of get to is the culture in backpacking that I'm becoming aware of and more more and more aware of. Yeah. In that it seems like it's getting out of the recreation and into the sport.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

Like bragging about how many miles you do. How many miles, and that's the sport side of this.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Yeah, yeah. Competition. Competition, like sticker on the back of your subi. I read a lot of things that yeah, did the 40.6 mile or whatever. I definitely uh yeah, it's just becoming more and more like prevalent to me that where if I were to go, it like there's if I'm talking with fellow backpackers and I say, Oh, I did five miles this day, there's a bit of like a hesitancy, hesitancy for me to say I did five only five miles, where then the next guy up can be like, Well, I did fifteen. Like, does that all like you do you understand the dynamic? Like there's a little bit of a lot of things.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

I guess now that you say that, and if you say a successful hiking trip for me, then is to get in and get out with myself and you all healthy. Okay. You know what I mean? That's where I'm not worried about how many miles we're going. And if Brad says we've got, you know, one more mile to go, but we s, you know, there's still five. I'm just I'll adapt to whatever need wherever I gotta get to.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

We've adapted so well at that that now we have our own measuring system on trail. Yeah, it's arranged.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

I've got so sick of how well you guys have adapted to that. And we have our own system. We adapted, we made it to the end. Yeah, we did.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

Lord have mercy. It felt like we added 15 miles to that trip, but whatever.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

But it is, and kind of like you alluded to, it's not to say uh like I think somebody who goes out and runs 20 miles through a backcountry trail versus down a city loop. Yeah, yeah, that's way cooler, like going out and doing like 20 miles on a backpacking trail, like on a on a backcountry trail. Like running? Yeah. I'm saying I'm but I'm saying like we're not here to like poo-poo that. No, because it's just different, that's like a different thing.

SPEAKER_00 25:39

No, absolutely. I I want to keep it very much in the backpacking hiking realm because I don't do a lot of googling and uh running gear. Yeah, like I'm not into that. I'm into the backpacking side of it, and as my bones get older, I want to be I want to be okay with with doing five miles and not 15 miles and still feel like I'm part of the conversation because because I was out there. And I guess through this episode, I just wanted to explore a little bit of what we thought, what we what what our opinions are pertaining to a successful trip, and then kind of like what what a slower trip kind of means. Yeah, I think over what that allows us over time.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

I think when Brad invited me on that that section trip on the Appalachian Trail, it for me it really was about miles. Yeah, I was thinking, oh, we're gonna go however many miles. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you get back, the first thing you say is, Oh, we did a so many mile trip.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

And they're like, oh, wow, can't believe you went there. Yeah, that's what you get. That's that's what blows people away.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

But I've evolved from there. Now I I'm more observational. I want to see what's going on around me. I'm not, I don't give a shit about the miles. That's not a big deal to me anymore. But I'll bring everything with me that I need if there are a bunch of miles ahead of me, which is fine. I like doing that too. I love camping and all that stuff. So yeah, it's just uh it's situational, it's it's experience, it's uh, I don't know, you kill your ego a little bit, and the miles don't matter. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if it's I I think I I in my opinion, I think that there's a bit, has been potentially a bit of a culture shift to backpacking in this kind of atmosphere is Maxing.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

Maxing is the coolest thing.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Yeah, it's l it's less about the recreation and going out to nature and understanding the eco spiritual.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

It's not about the spirit of it, it's about the sport of it. Doing it as hard as you can. Yeah. And and not everybody's like that, obviously. We're definitely not like that.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

No, but I'll say it. My my perfect ideal backpacking trip that I look for every time I am trying to figure out what trip I'm gonna go on is like 40 miles over five days.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

Because then you have enough leeway to extend and and then have a shorter day, longer day. Because you have less than 10 miles, you need an average over five days. And that to me, that's like the perfect because you still have to like you're still moving enough to get to different ecosystems of that trail and see every like see more stuff, yeah, but you're not pushing it hard every every day.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

I was thinking about that too. Like there's there's a give and take to uh what you stopping and smelling the roses and getting your miles completed, and there uh I like a nice little balance nowadays before I would have been like I don't care what the miles are, let's freaking hoof it and get there. But now I want to stop and smell the roses a little bit more. So I like short mileage and a little more. It's not as hard on the body. Um, and even if like you're in the mindset of observing the world around you as you're hiking, you just can't give your focus 100% to it.

SPEAKER_03 29:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:15

So if you can get those miles like out of the way, and then you have time either at the beginning of the day or the end of the day, then just to sit and relax and observe and listen. Because even when you're hiking, you can hear your feet, you can hear your freaking poles, your gears squeaking or whatever. And there's there's just too much disturbances.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

You're like you're you're trying not to fall the fuck down when it's something inside of your cook pot rattling. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

When you guys, so when you think back to all the backpacking trips you guys have gone on, and uh maybe stop to smell the roses. Let's let's just keep going with that analogy. Like, do you find that more of the memories outside of when you say how many miles you did to a friend or a family member when you get back, do you find that more of the memories you guys have made even in your younger years of backpacking hiking were the moments that you did take it slow? Whether or not you hoofed it to your campsite and stopped, like because some dudes will people will backpack all the way till sundown.

SPEAKER_02 30:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Like I'm doing it from sunup to sundown, where I'm also of and now everybody knows my story because I'm on the second episode of Friends now, but like I'm also like listening to you guys when I'm in my tent and just being in my tent. To me, it's there's not it's not even a bad premise to stop early and get camp. Like, and I think that's what you're kind of going with is that you can average just under 10 miles in that you get that done by noon. Oh, yeah. And then you just be chilling if you're doing if you don't start at 11.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

If you're walking 30 minutes per mile, yeah, that's what's the math on that?

SPEAKER_00 30:54

Don't ask me, baby. Five miles or five hours to do that. So do you guys feel like a lot of your memories come from the slow points of your trip?

SPEAKER_02 31:02

I would say m most of them. Most of them? Because when you're when you're hiking, especially when you're you're hoofing, like you're kind of in a flow state. Yeah. You're not making memories.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

No.

SPEAKER_02 31:12

But it's always like the Appalachian Trail, like the first night, the Witchwoods, the Cabin, the freaking Bald Mountain, all those places where we stopped to camp and got time to actually absorb the environment we were in.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

And taking like because we normally we like to look up and see where potential good lunch spots are too. And take an hour lunch. Like we know this this pond's coming up, or we know this overlook's coming up, so let's plan to get there and take an hour lunch and like sit out and chill and relax and enjoy that hour.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

And even that's even it it's hard to relax then too, because you still know you have miles ahead of you.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

But at least it's like for me, it's you have your campsite you started at, you have your lunch spot, and then you have your end-of-the-campsite. So it's like you have like three places in that on that along that trail where you're stopping and taking it in.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

Great lunch spots on the Manistee River Trail. Yeah, so it's kind of like overlook the river.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

So that's what to me, it's like, okay, you missed this campsite, that's awesome. And you would love to camp, but you got to you have to go for a little further. But it's like at least you can stay there for an hour and have lunch and hang out.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

Yeah, and it does seem like a lot of the trips that we've gone on, or just I've gone on with others, that you do end up finding like planning. You could plan for a sweet lunch spot. Like, dude, if we if we woke up, did five miles or six miles or whatever, and get to that lunch spot and now you're there for an hour and a half.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Because it's literally like we have all fucking day. Yeah. Like we we don't have we just gotta get to the next campsite. Yeah, that's right. We have all day.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

Nice the trails. If you're doing 10 miles or under sorry, Travis, but if you're doing under 10 miles. Yeah. If your plan is to just to pace that son of a bitch, then you're you don't have to. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

There's a lot of trails that have more campsites along it than others. Yeah. And so the the ones that have a bunch, like those you can be like, well, if we don't make it, maybe we'll have to do an extra couple miles tomorrow. You can plan it out that way.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

That's where I like the 40 miles because you're you can kind of you have a lot of room to play.

SPEAKER_00 33:28

It always seems like a good, a good range. Yeah. 40 miles is a good range for and it seems like there's a lot of loops that are week.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

Five days. Yeah. Four nights, five days.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

Yeah, and you have that back end of the weekend where you don't have to rush home. You kind of just chill out in the town that you that's where we're we don't want anything to be too stressful, you know.

SPEAKER_02 33:45

No, it's and there's no reason for it to be.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

Well, I think uh and this is what I was I'm going to get to at the end of all of this, is like I I don't this isn't an age thing, right? Is this a is this me just giving busted knees?

SPEAKER_01 33:57

It could be an age thing. Well, even just an age thing in that it's we can appreciate those environments more than when we were younger.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

Brad and I certainly weren't birders uh, you know, taking on the Appalachian Trail.

SPEAKER_01 34:11

But we could still uh like appreciate a cool place, yeah, but it wasn't the same.

SPEAKER_02 34:21

Yeah. But now we'd be like, oh, look at that freaking northern fox with a birch and environment's uh uh evolution or what I don't know what the fuck I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

Anyway, yeah, even but five days is also kind of the max load of food to carry, too. Like you don't usually usually you're not carrying more than five days of food on a trip, or else you're starting to get up into some pretty h heavy weights.

SPEAKER_00 34:47

Yeah, because at that point you're gonna probably end up being ultralight in a lot of other aspects or coming to a shelter or a town reciprocum.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

So that's where it's like because even especially the AT, like you're never more than three to four days from a town. Right. So a lot of the places that we do go hike, that's kind of how it is. Like they're meant for five days max. Yeah. If you're taking it slow. Right.

SPEAKER_02 35:13

And yeah, like Patty said, I think that five day just that week hiking is perfect. Yeah. Like you get right to the end, and you're just like, man, um, it's my body is ready to be laying in a bed, and I need I need to take a shower and I want some pancakes.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

It's perfect. I'm always looking for a steak burger, dude. Ooh, that's just a no, uh well, I don't care where it's from, just a steak burger. Yeah. I don't know. I I I I just want to keep going down this realm. I I'm liking the way you guys are making me feel right now about this.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

Well, so I uh I'm kind of curious as like what you you thought maybe we would say, or the what you didn't expect us to say.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

No, I th I think you guys are answering my questions in the way that I would hope you hope hope you guys would or thought you guys would.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

Um Well, I will say because I almost said it earlier, it is there is something about when we go kayaking, being able to say, Oh, you know, we did 120 miles. Yeah, that does feel pretty like that.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

But I think at that point we were through hiking.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

It's a personal thing because I like, okay, my body can still do these, can still accomplish these things in my mind.

SPEAKER_00 36:33

Yeah, I guess I'm just I'm just wanting to get to the point where like when we go out, the 40 miles is perfect to me. I agree with Brad, where we go out and we're allowing ourselves time to enjoy the the place that we're at.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

Like I don't wanna I don't wanna be, I don't wanna do the hoofing anymore.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

See, we didn't do that on the room. Yeah, I'm doing the same the same way.

SPEAKER_00 36:56

We didn't. Well, you have no choice.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

And now we're doing now. We're doing 40 more miles this year.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

Touche.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

I I don't know if you're gonna punto and you're right against the river the whole time. Yeah, the river's faster. Yeah. I don't know where that kind of lines up with the backpacking thing.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

Like I said, I was just of kayaking. What what mileage is that?

SPEAKER_00 37:18

Like I said, I was just I I'm just getting a little disheartened. You know, one of the reasons why we started this backpacking podcast originally? Like a little bit, yeah, for sure. And and we we have Rebecca, no, not with you guys at all. Podcast over? Yeah, this is my this is my final, I'm out of here. No, dude. Uh uh like we have Rebecca Cuff coming on, who's over 60, she's a female, she's a section hiker of the app trail. And I and I cannot wait to talk with her just about like how she how she goes through it and like one of her what's her prep and how many miles she does and things along those lines. But I mean, we remember back to when we first started this, the first discussions we were having based around when we originally started off with just solely a backpacking podcast, was because of the frustrations we found in watching gear review videos or videos about the trails, and these dudes are these people are doing you know 40 miles in a day, and we're just out here trying to do five-day, 40, yeah, 40 mile backpacking trip. Like there was nobody to kind of speak to us. So, so fast forward a year and a half, and it seems like that culture has just been taking off. And I think that that's the huge growth in ultralight. Like, shit, dude. Right. We just did an episode, we were talking about strange gear, and 90% of that gear, the crotch pot. So people are people, I mean, like, that's an evolution of the game that is taking it to a place that I've just questioned whether or not like I'm just too old, like I'm not wearing young people clothes anymore. I'm just wearing cats and buttons up. Doesn't want a bumper dumper. I don't want a bumper dumper, but like all of those things are just like leading me to this this idea that like backpacking is taking this trajectory, like in five years it's gonna be a fucking Olympic sport.

SPEAKER_02 39:09

That's what, yeah, that's what everything eventually ends up at. Yeah, we take it everything to the extreme. But I also think like the ultralight stuff, yeah, like that benefits us old guys that greatly. So I'm not complaining about it because I've got a I lifted my pack up with that, I put my tent back in it, or my new tent in it, and I'm just like, holy crap. And like I still have to add a 10-pound bear can to it, and it's still gonna be lighter than my uh pack without food in it.

SPEAKER_00 39:47

You are there, no doubt about that. That the ultralight stuff does have Jonathan Cable. When we had him on a few uh seasons ago, he talked about how those young guys were just pacing him on trail, and he's like, How the hell? And he was it's just the weight. The weight is such a huge factor.

SPEAKER_02 40:05

I know when you're trying to go fast and you're getting old.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

Yeah, okay. As long as you're separating those into two different things, then I'm comfortable with that.

SPEAKER_02 40:16

I like that. But I mean it would help young hikers too to save their knees and stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

I mean, worried about the young guys. Yeah, I I I don't no, not fuck them. But I just I just wanna I just want to make sure throughout the whole premise of what we're doing is that if you're our age or older and you're questioning whether or not you can get out on that backpacking trail. And you know, if if you're looking up stuff on YouTube and you're trying to do 10 miles in this backpacking trip over three nights, yeah, then brother or sister, you go for that. Yeah, you go do that, and we're gonna make you feel good about it because we're right in that same realm. Hang you a clothesline when you get to can. Yeah, do it right. Nice and tight, have a sweet chair, tear your clothes out overnight. Oh, man. Although that's why I have Brad, because of those things. Yeah, I I don't want to gripe. Like, I'm not trying to sound like a bitcher and moaner.

SPEAKER_02 41:13

Do I sound like that right now? I don't know. I'm not sure what your feelings are about what Brad and I are saying right now.

SPEAKER_00 41:20

No, what you guys are saying is super. It's not about you, it's about it's about the the research I'm doing and just kind of my my avenue to do.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

It was always it was always because you you can never gauge how hard it is to do a loop or um like a popular section of a trail because you have these people saying like you look at it and you you see 5,000 feet of elevation. You're talking about the crazy elevation change. YouTube video people, yeah, and then you watch these videos and they're like, oh, you know, we did this in half a day. It was so easy, and it should and you're just like, wait, so like how it can't be that how is it that it can't be that easy? How is it that or how many is it gonna take us?

SPEAKER_02 42:02

Yeah, are they like kitted up with the lightest gear and they're just trancing through it like super easy?

SPEAKER_00 42:09

I mean, granted, some of those reviewers are sponsored and you know stuff like that, but no, they would like to do it. Or they're just full of shit. I don't know. Or they're full of shit, or they're in it for another reason, and they're in it for miles and not memories. And like you guys, I built a lot of my memories. Most all of my memories come from taking a second, looking at the view, smelling the roses. Well, I think we're not gonna encourage that a bit.

SPEAKER_02 42:33

We're not complaining about how they complete their trails. Where it's uh an issue of people might be you know or get a misconception about how easy or hard that trail is because you have these experienced uh hikers acting like it's no big deal. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

When yeah, when you know, yeah, if you feel like you need to take a week and do 20 miles, then brother, take a week and do 20 miles.

SPEAKER_02 43:00

Like, and I think with the T Ton, because we were watching Teton YouTube videos, and there we were I remember you guys talking about well, this one group said it was you know, no big deal.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

That's how it all is.

SPEAKER_02 43:11

So like we went from here to here in three days.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

And it's not reality in a lot of people. Well, my knees blew out in a day. It's it's just not reality in a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

But then it is also partly like if you're like I think kind of partly what we're getting at too is like Patty saying, if you are going like covering 20 miles in one day, like are you even really are you enjoying the scenery and nature around you?

SPEAKER_02 43:32

Yeah, it depends on what what you're there for. Right. If you're there just to complete that trail, all power to you, go freaking run that thing. If you're if you're just there to saunter, you gotta you could take ten days to do that.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

Just make sure you fifty mile trail. I don't care. Like stay away keep a couple campsit away from us though.

SPEAKER_00 43:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:55

We don't want too many people keeping pace with us. Oh well you know. I'm a middle of the bubble type of gent, dude. I want all of 'em. Come on. It is even like the uh one because some of my best memories are at the end of the day when we drop our packs and we're roaming around up and down the trail trying to find the the perfect campsite. Yeah. Like oh, I think I think like up a little ways it might be a cool campsite. That's nice to have your pack on you and you can just like you feel like you're your spine's decompressing, your knees are and that's one of my favorite parts of the day. It's like finding a super like the best campsite that you have. Yeah. That's that shit's awesome. It's a blast. I do love it. Dude, you gotta have a good campsite.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

You do. Oh yeah. We made that last one we made Patty move campsites because we found a better one. We moved my whole constructive tent.

SPEAKER_00 44:49

He picked his tent up with it being built. Yeah, I was like, I'm not tearing this through brush. Great call.

SPEAKER_02 44:55

I think we did warn you we we're going to look to see if there might be better campsites.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

Why call it? Well, I was like, Friends episode website, call it. It was getting late. It was like me, like you were a mom, and I knew dad was gonna say no, so I went to Travis and I was like, hey, Travis, Travis, come look, come look at this campsite. And Patty's already watching Friends. And I like I had to get him on my side first.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

No, it worked perfectly. Brad and I are like little kids.

SPEAKER_03 45:22

Like, dude, look at this tree.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

So let's get a little phys philosophical with this. Because I'm I'm I'm I'm just just still diving into this realm of whether or not it's good or bad to go super duper fast down trail. Well, while you're backpacking, not kayaking, trail running, or anything like that. Do you by any chance think that the pace that you keep on trail is a correlation to the pace that you keep in life? Uh absolutely. You do?

SPEAKER_02 45:53

I'm a very go with the flow, seat of my pants. Yeah. Kind of guy. And I would say that that's yeah, how I've kind of pretty much lived my life. But in a very structured way. Yeah. Like to where I've I'm still financially responsible. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:10

So I I what what about like taking it slow, smelling the roses? Oh, I love it.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

I'll go any well at any more like the speed thing, but it's I'm not gonna do that. But I I've definitely been since this podcast started, like certainly more interested in the smaller things that are going out there. Oh, that's right. Instead of like because you you can really get lost uh or what lose the trees for the forest because you see these big mountains. And so you're not thinking about really the ecology of the place, you're just so blown away by the majesty of you know these huge rocks in the sky. And the same thing for this massive forest, you know, in Appalachia. And but I think the more you do it, you start to kind of you see the smaller things and you can enjoy those. And of course, as we know, those take you down rabbit holes that just never end. And we birds, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:14

Yeah, right. Rocks, right? Thank you. What about you, Brad? Do you see a direct correlation to how you your pace on trail compared to your life?

SPEAKER_01 47:23

Um I'm not sure. I I think so. Like I I can never sit still. I can never chill out and relax, and that kind of is how I am on trail too. But I think that's also why I like trips the way that I do, because it gives me time to like stay active and mess around and not just have like one thing I'm going towards, which is like good skin miles.

SPEAKER_02 47:50

I do I do find like if we were if we're worried about miles, it's very distracting from the rest of the experience.

SPEAKER_01 47:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:58

And I think we've talked about that before.

SPEAKER_01 48:00

That's all you're focused on, is like when like how many more do we have?

SPEAKER_02 48:04

How long is it gonna take to get to camp? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

So we can stop and smell the rest of the stuff. And like we have we have definitely had days like that where it's like we have a big day today, we all we gotta do, like all we're doing is like pushing all day.

SPEAKER_02 48:17

And I think you just have to accept it. Yeah, and that's that's what I like it too, is I like those times where I'm I'm doing things that I have to exert more energy than I was expecting. It becomes a challenge, and then getting to the end of that day feels a lot better.

SPEAKER_00 48:35

Like you accomplished.

SPEAKER_02 48:36

Yeah. So yeah, it's not necessarily the observational aspect of just being in nature and stuff in the disconnect with the rest of the world, but that the physical challenge, the mental challenge of overcoming getting her done. Yeah, getting it done.

SPEAKER_00 48:53

I definitely think that that's wonderful because the way Brad generally plans his trips as well, and it seems the way that I might have also before I met Brad was that there's always that one day, but then it's followed up by like two or three like good pace. Yeah, let's go see some shit days.

SPEAKER_02 49:11

Yep. You know what I mean? And I think it's gonna get better for us, you know, the the longer we do this because we're gonna get so familiar with our gear and stuff that the setups will be fast, we'll have more time to be out and explore stuff.

SPEAKER_00 49:26

That's why I won't get rid of my hospital. I'm always gonna be tinkering this around. Yeah, he is. That's what he does. Unfortunately, he does it from seven o'clock to nine thirty in the morning.

SPEAKER_02 49:37

I just want my setup and you know, freaking pack up just to be as fast as possible.

SPEAKER_00 49:45

Yeah. Let me make one more point, and I just want to see what you think about this. In terms of conservation, in terms of trail building and that kind of stuff, when we go back into the history of the godfathers of the John Muir, Roosevelt, those guys, uh, Leo Ottopold, those guys that learned nature and felt it so necessary for other humans to get out into this nature that they took time to build trails and to start programs to get trails in all of these spaces preserved. Right. Do you think that it would have been like that if their goal was I'm gonna walk from this side of the mountain to the other side of the mountain as fast as I can? No. Like, do you think that there's also a conservation, like a lace and clerk were probably like that? Well, but it wasn't their one one of their main roles.

SPEAKER_03 50:40

We gotta get there before June, or we're gonna be fucked. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:43

But they were also out studying wildlife, taking notes, taking notes, drawing pictures of what they saw so they can understand.

SPEAKER_02 50:50

I guess I just wanted to go those are the days I like fantasize about like being on a boat down a river, unexplored, unexplored, and uh like I'm the guy. They're like, Travis, you're the fucking picture guy. Start drawing pictures of these things. And I'd be like, Yeah, yeah, what's and then I'd go back and show the president and be like, eh, Mr. President, you're back in a journal.

SPEAKER_01 51:13

That's how like me and Travis are talking about, uh, like nature, art, and him him like getting into that. And yeah, that's how they used to convey the beauty of the West was through like artwork and books, sketchbooks.

SPEAKER_00 51:27

Which means they were taking time, they were sitting down, they were observing their environment, the ecosystems, the wildlife flora and fauna around them, drawing pictures, sending that back home, and that is what inspired thousands and millions of millions of people to start exploring these areas, these untouched landscapes, and then further to preserve those untouched landscapes, to make sure that the next generation can see it that's right, you know, as clean as everybody else. I just wanted to add that little little bit of a nugget just to further drive the point home. That if any of our listeners are out there just wondering if they can, when they can, all of this stuff, just know that all you gotta do is go out there, do it at your own pace, no matter what the pace. And if you want to stop and smell the roses, you want to draw pictures or take photographs, then do it. Because the main, the most important thing is just go out there and walk those trails.

SPEAKER_02 52:33

And I would I I agree with you taking your pictures, but the rest of your phone, just turn it off because it's gonna be a distraction. Let it just be 100% a part of you around you in the moment. Because and that's what's great about backpacking, is you are for forced to be in the moment. Yep. There for you know, however long you want to be, and uh it's a really nice feeling not to have to worry about all that shit. That's another thing, is just the in terms of philosophy or just uh wellness, personal wellness, is that kind of meditative disconnection that you get uh when you're out there in the middle of nowhere and you don't hear modern sounds.

SPEAKER_00 53:22

You don't it sure does a lot to the old soul.

SPEAKER_02 53:26

And that has nothing to do with really the speed or the how much you want to stop and smell the roses. Sometimes it's just that the emptiness of you know, urban is gone. It's just I don't know. I don't know what that is, but there's something I don't know how to explain it, something to it.

SPEAKER_00 53:46

I agree. Well, that's what I had for this episode. I just wanted you guys to make me feel better about the backpacking position I'm in. Did we? You made me feel incredible. Nice. Yep. What are you out of ten? Ten.

SPEAKER_02 54:01

Can we cut that for a second? I need a record scratch. What what's your opinion, Patrick? You didn't really you haven't explained like what why do you what's your what are you thinking when you're on trail?

SPEAKER_00 54:17

I think that there's certainly something to be said about miles, but what what I'm fearful of is that backpacking is become like I'm an I'm an old skater, right? I show up to a skate park and there's a bunch of 18-year-olds skateboarding and doing big jumps and tricks and stuff. It makes you feel kind of out like I'm a little too old for that. On when I left uh my job at 401 metals, my old job, I went and danced at a dance floor, on a dance floor for the first time in like 15 years. Yeah. And it was that that ain't my game no more. Like 40-year-olds are not on the dance floor listening to club music anymore. And so Tony Hawk's still out there skating. I saw Bam Majera out there skating too. Dude, that was an amazing video. And I'm not and and I'm not like, and I think that that's great because it's all the new generations moving into that. But what I what as I was kind of diving into this episode, like I've alluded to plenty of times in this episode, is just it, and then planning for the Tetons trip, looking up gear, all this stuff. It I don't I don't want our listeners to lose focus on what the importance of backpacking and hiking is. Right. And when you're getting into this to the realm of backpacking or hiking, it can be really easy to kind of get like, holy shit, like I'm out of my element, right? Surely based on miles. And I don't really have an opinion so much, I'm not shitting on anything, but I just wanted our listeners to listen to us talk a little bit about the because I knew you guys would be in it for the memories, so I wanted them to hear that there is a a quality to building memories on trails and taking your own.

SPEAKER_02 56:06

I think the personal challenge is equal to that as well.

SPEAKER_00 56:11

Sure, it can it can be one or the other, but there is a a sp there is I guess a mental and physical benefit. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, so that's all I wanted to say. That's all I was just hoping to kind of get a little bit out there and uh, you know, see what you guys thought. And kind of inspire, hopefully inspired some of our of our listeners to maybe get over that hump of feeling a little bit inadequate.

SPEAKER_02 56:36

And I think that's kind of the what we're trying to get to ultimately is it there's uh a million reasons for you to go out there. Yeah. And if you but if you don't go out there, uh you won't discover those reasons that you didn't know you wanted to be out there. That's right. You know what I mean? Yeah. So yeah, if you're if you're feeling a little depressed or something, go take a walk and just turn your brain off and just watch and observe, and maybe you'll discover something that uh you want to go back and keep hitting the trail. And there's always a way to heal up or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 57:17

All right, crank that outgoing music now. Start it. That's what we had for you today. Thank you very much for listening. I appreciate it. I hope there was a bit of inspiration in that chaos of an episode of what it was. But I just had a lot I wanted to talk to you guys about in a more of a conversational format. Thank you very much for everybody listening. If you want to find us, bustedpretty.com, busted needs and pretty trees on Instagram, bustedpretty at blue sky, and all those other ones. Check us out and love us. Love you, bye-bye.

SPEAKER_02 57:49

Thank you all for listening. Keep on sauntering. Or meandering or strolling or running, whatever you whatever you prefer. Just keep on doing it. See you rowing. Rowing sweaty. You could paddle. You could probably paddle. Hopscotch. I don't know how annoyed I'd be if I saw somebody hopscotching down the trail. No, I'd be annoyed.

SPEAKER_01 58:17

Like you're supposed to be walking in toe shoes. Normal normal game. Yeah, they probably would wear toe shoes if you're